Comments on: Frank Page: Calvinism Manmade Not Bible-based http://hereiblog.com/frank-page-calvinism-manmade-not-bible-based-4/ Christian, southern baptist, theology, reformed, thinking, culture, religion, apologetics, defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Fri, 18 May 2012 16:13:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Dr. James Willinghamhttp://hereiblog.com/frank-page-calvinism-manmade-not-bible-based-4/comment-page-1/#comment-7803 Dr. James Willingham Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:54:20 +0000 http://hereiblog.com/?p=101#comment-7803 Funny. I talked to a retired southern baptist pastor who use to teach the doctrines of grace in the church where Dr. Page grew up. The pastor then had this pastor (who is not retired) to come in and teach these truths to his people. So I was told. I can tell you that the old southern baptist pastors in many cases knew and preached and taught and lived the Gospel of Sovereign Grace. The TULIP doctrines that Dr. Page is so troubled with are the doctrines that produced the First and Second Great Awakenings and the beginnings of the Great Century of Missions. A little research by Dr. Page would confirm these facts. I have heard many say Sandy Creek was Arminian. The records of the Assn burned up in a fire circa 1800, but there is no doubt as to where they stood. One just has to look at the records of individual churches in Sandy Creek to find the Sovereign Grace Truths writ large. Also, conveniently forgotten, there is the fact that Sandy Creek was accepted by the Regular Baptists of the Philadelphia Assn, that churches in TN est. by Sandy Creek people often adopted the Phila. Conession of Faith (1742), that ministers of the two assns. moved back and forth between the two as messengers and as pastors. For example, not many know that Richard Furman, the great leader of FBC Charleston began his service as a Separate Baptist. His successor was Basil Manley, Sr., also a Separate Baptist and straight from Sandy Creek. I have found that Sovereign Grace, the TULIP truths, are evangelistic, invitational, awakening. The Proof? Just look at and study the Great Awakenings. Funny how the Baptists of Georgia who, following Daniel Marshall, et.al., were very calvinistic were the first to have a missionary. Yes, his name was George Lisle, a Black minister converted under Marshall (if memory serves correctly). He left with the British, when they evacuated Savannah, went to Jamaica and founded the first Baptist church there, a de facto missionary surely. Ain't it something to find out that a decade before Carey, an African American Southern Baptist of the Separate persuasion who was clearly of the calvinistic (I still prefer Sovereign Grace) persuasion became the first missionary from the South? AMAZING! But we do appreciate Bro. Page's attitude. We need more like him on both sides. Now the inventors of such liberalism were the original sovereign grace ministers of VA & NC with the uniting of Separates and Regulars in 1787 and the rule that the practice of preaching that Christ tasted death for every man would be no bar to communion. Such liberalism grows out of the nature and application of Biblical doctrines; it is the intellectual effect of being balanced, flexible, and creative, which is what God intended for His truths to do to His people so they would have the confidence to deal with situations. I pastored a United Baptist Church in MO in the 60s which had been founded in 1827 as a result of the 1787 agreement, and the original articles of faith were strongly and clearly sovereign grace. In our past we really have a heritage that will help us to meet the stresses of disagreement with equanamity (sp?)and win the day by compassionate responses to differences, believing that God's truth can win without our manipulating or using deceptive practices or being authoritarian. After all there is a difference between authoritarian and authoritative. The former is psychologically wanting, while the former is the healthy winsomeness of truth in an appropriate context. Let us choose the right way of love as we look to God for the Third Great Awakening that wins the whole world to Christ, Funny. I talked to a retired southern baptist pastor who use to teach the doctrines of grace in the church where Dr. Page grew up. The pastor then had this pastor (who is not retired) to come in and teach these truths to his people. So I was told. I can tell you that the old southern baptist pastors in many cases knew and preached and taught and lived the Gospel of Sovereign Grace. The TULIP doctrines that Dr. Page is so troubled with are the doctrines that produced the First and Second Great Awakenings and the beginnings of the Great Century of Missions. A little research by Dr. Page would confirm these facts. I have heard many say Sandy Creek was Arminian. The records of the Assn burned up in a fire circa 1800, but there is no doubt as to where they stood. One just has to look at the records of individual churches in Sandy Creek to find the Sovereign Grace Truths writ large. Also, conveniently forgotten, there is the fact that Sandy Creek was accepted by the Regular Baptists of the Philadelphia Assn, that churches in TN est. by Sandy Creek people often adopted the Phila. Conession of Faith (1742), that ministers of the two assns. moved back and forth between the two as messengers and as pastors. For example, not many know that Richard Furman, the great leader of FBC Charleston began his service as a Separate Baptist. His successor was Basil Manley, Sr., also a Separate Baptist and straight from Sandy Creek. I have found that Sovereign Grace, the TULIP truths, are evangelistic, invitational, awakening. The Proof? Just look at and study the Great Awakenings. Funny how the Baptists of Georgia who, following Daniel Marshall, et.al., were very calvinistic were the first to have a missionary. Yes, his name was George Lisle, a Black minister converted under Marshall (if memory serves correctly). He left with the British, when they evacuated Savannah, went to Jamaica and founded the first Baptist church there, a de facto missionary surely. Ain’t it something to find out that a decade before Carey, an African American Southern Baptist of the Separate persuasion who was clearly of the calvinistic (I still prefer Sovereign Grace) persuasion became the first missionary from the South? AMAZING! But we do appreciate Bro. Page’s attitude. We need more like him on both sides. Now the inventors of such liberalism were the original sovereign grace ministers of VA & NC with the uniting of Separates and Regulars in 1787 and the rule that the practice of preaching that Christ tasted death for every man would be no bar to communion. Such liberalism grows out of the nature and application of Biblical doctrines; it is the intellectual effect of being balanced, flexible, and creative, which is what God intended for His truths to do to His people so they would have the confidence to deal with situations. I pastored a United Baptist Church in MO in the 60s which had been founded in 1827 as a result of the 1787 agreement, and the original articles of faith were strongly and clearly sovereign grace. In our past we really have a heritage that will help us to meet the stresses of disagreement with equanamity (sp?)and win the day by compassionate responses to differences, believing that God’s truth can win without our manipulating or using deceptive practices or being authoritarian. After all there is a difference between authoritarian and authoritative. The former is psychologically wanting, while the former is the healthy winsomeness of truth in an appropriate context. Let us choose the right way of love as we look to God for the Third Great Awakening that wins the whole world to Christ,

]]> By: kletoishttp://hereiblog.com/frank-page-calvinism-manmade-not-bible-based-4/comment-page-1/#comment-168 kletois Wed, 09 Aug 2006 09:12:00 +0000 http://hereiblog.com/?p=101#comment-168 Dr Page is half right. Calvinism is a manmade systematic theology. Dr Page errs over the Bible based issue. Calvinism is totally Bible based, a result of historical-grammatical exegesis of the text of scripture.--> Dr Page is half right. Calvinism is a manmade systematic theology. Dr Page errs over the Bible based issue. Calvinism is totally Bible based, a result of historical-grammatical exegesis of the text of scripture.–>

]]> By: Adam Cummingshttp://hereiblog.com/frank-page-calvinism-manmade-not-bible-based-4/comment-page-1/#comment-167 Adam Cummings Wed, 02 Aug 2006 11:24:00 +0000 http://hereiblog.com/?p=101#comment-167 JM... nice blog! Thanks for stopping by mine. I'm finally starting to add all my old stuff to my new Blogger template, so it's starting to look like a blog again. I look forward to checking back at your blog as often as I find time (I'll add you to my blogroll when I edit the links). See you! JM… nice blog! Thanks for stopping by mine. I’m finally starting to add all my old stuff to my new Blogger template, so it’s starting to look like a blog again. I look forward to checking back at your blog as often as I find time (I’ll add you to my blogroll when I edit the links). See you!

]]> By: Howard Fisherhttp://hereiblog.com/frank-page-calvinism-manmade-not-bible-based-4/comment-page-1/#comment-166 Howard Fisher Wed, 02 Aug 2006 11:13:00 +0000 http://hereiblog.com/?p=101#comment-166 What I don't understand is why the fuss? If a church comes to believe in the Doctrines of Grace and their denomination doesn't, then why is there this massive overwhelming need to remain in fellowship with churches who strongly disagree? There are reformed denominations that are stricly confessional and some churches that are not strictly confessional. A church should be able to find unity with others of like mind. If unity of doctrine is important, then why is the desire to remain in one denomination stronger than that? If you don't see unity in doctrine strong enough to not work with churches that are not calvinistic, then calvinistic churches should quit complaining and work with the churches. This should never stop dialogue, but if it does, what is stopping them from moving on? What I don’t understand is why the fuss? If a church comes to believe in the Doctrines of Grace and their denomination doesn’t, then why is there this massive overwhelming need to remain in fellowship with churches who strongly disagree?

There are reformed denominations that are stricly confessional and some churches that are not strictly confessional. A church should be able to find unity with others of like mind.

If unity of doctrine is important, then why is the desire to remain in one denomination stronger than that? If you don’t see unity in doctrine strong enough to not work with churches that are not calvinistic, then calvinistic churches should quit complaining and work with the churches.

This should never stop dialogue, but if it does, what is stopping them from moving on?

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