On April 23, 2010 Liberty University announced that Glenn Beck would deliver the Commencement speech for Liberty University’s Class of 2010. The graduation took place on Saturday, May 15. Beck’s speech can be viewed online at The Rightscoop.
Success came early for Beck when just before his speech, Liberty conferred an honorary Doctorate of Humanities degree upon him. Beck then went on to speak to the more than 4,000 students present.
The result of the Commencement speech?
Best commencement we’ve ever had.
Said Jerry Falwell, Jr., Chancellor of Liberty University. It seems Beck and the Liberty officials were happy. It seems the graduating students were also pleased judging by the their reactions during the speech. Given Beck’s political leanings and entertainment value this is understandable. However, it wasn’t all smiles for everyone.
Some concerned Christians spoke up. A most interesting passing reply to these concerned Christians came from a Liberty official. On, April 23, the same day of the announcement, Ergun Caner, President of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary responded via twitter.
Glenn Beck at the LU Graduation! Love it! And I’m loving the snarking of the haters. LU folk: rejoice when they revile!
Given the nature of the concern for Beck speaking at Liberty this reply does not make a lot of sense. Caner may have been referring to Matthew 5:11 or another part of Scripture. This would be even more troubling since Christians are to rejoice when persecuted for Christ’s sake. Given that Beck is a Mormon it should be difficult for any Christian to rejoice in such manner.
One example of concern comes from a Florida pastor who was part of this graduating class. He shared his feelings at – Point of View: Why Glenn Beck is wrong for Liberty University’s commencement. His first paragraph lays out the crux of the concern.
For those who may not be aware, Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., which has consistently been known for its strong conservative and Christian values as a Baptist school, has invited political talk show host Glenn Beck to give the commencement speech to its graduates this week. On the surface that may not seem alarming to many since he is conservative. But given the fact he is a Mormon there ought to be red flags and sirens going off all across Christian circles.
Were this pastor’s concerns valid? After all, it was a Commencement speech given from a person who basically shares the same politically and socially conservative worldview as his audience. Non-Christians can speak truths in these areas. Can we agree on that? Even James White points this out about non-Christians speaking truth while addressing a different issue after the fact in Can Unbelievers Speak Truth?
Can an atheist speak truth? If he says “2+2=4″ is the statement less true than if a Christian said the same thing?
What is interesting about White’s post is that he is combating claims that information received from a Muslim can be true regardless of its source. In this case, the information from a Muslim is being used to analyze some of Ergun Caner’s teachings on Islam. If it is wrong for White to reference a Muslim to merely fact check, how can it then be acceptable for Liberty to use a Mormon to promote its agenda through a speech? However, fact checking versus partnering with a non-Christian who calls on the name of Jesus and His gospel, as will be shown below, are two very different things. Where is the outrage? But I digress.
Concerning Words
Are the concerns of the pastor quoted above, as well as that of other Christians, valid? On the surface the answer is an easy “yes” since Christians and Mormons don’t mix doctrinally. However, since this situation concerns Liberty University it is probably best to seek their own perspective on these issues.
The Message From the Chancellor states:
Liberty University is the largest and fastest growing Christian Evangelical university in the world. …vision to train young Champions for Christ. … Everything we do is designed to develop Christ-centered men and women with the values, knowledge and skills essential to impact tomorrow’s world.
From the LU Distinctives point 2:
A commitment to training visionary champions for Christ. Chapel and convocation speakers are leaders from the worlds of business, education, athletics, government, many professions and the Gospel ministry. These champions join hands with our faculty and chancellor in challenging Liberty students to become visionaries and to win the world for Christ from their vocational platforms.
And a final example, from their Mission:
To develop Christ-centered men and women with the values, knowledge, and skills essential to impact tomorrow’s world.
Liberty desires to develop Christ-centered graduates that can take the gospel into all walks of life. This is a great biblical, praiseworthy goal. Yet, a Mormon gave the Commencement speech for this year’s graduating class. A Commencement is when the students are conferred their degrees from the school. Although some may say it was only a Commencement speech, it may also be one of the last speeches those graduates hear as they are sent out into the world for Christ.
Did Beck say anything troubling or confusing? Jerry Falwell, Jr. introduced Beck by conferring the honorary doctorate due to Beck’s “tireless efforts to preserve the American ideal.” I would probably agree with this American ideal, yet how does this relate to Liberty’s Christ-centered vision?
Beck begins explaining:
I want you to know that I understand that the invitation to speak today is not meant as an endorsement of my faith. But I also want you to understand, that my agreeing to speak here today is an endorsement of your faith.
This is a very interesting statement. It lays the ground work for Beck to bridge a theological divide. He goes on to say that “we need to find the things that unite us…” He finds these commonalities by using biblical terms.
The Spirit is an amazing tool. Rely on God. Do your own work and ask Him, is this right? He will reveal the truth. … The Lord gave us these rights.
Beck references George Whitefield as an amazing man and explains how he reminds him of Moses. He then explains how he recently went to the Scriptures to read about Moses. While describing how he might have reacted if he were in Moses’ shoes he references himself as God’s child. At one point he exclaims:
Turn to God and live!
After pausing for applause, he goes on to repeat this statement. After challenging the students to make the most of their life he tells of a Scripture passage that changed his life, Ezekiel 33. He explains how the Lord must be our shield. Then come some troubling words.
Root ourself in the gospel. Put our feet in the gospel of peace, but be unmovable. Stand for liberty.
Minutes later Beck starts talking about the importance of the atonement. He states how powerful it is and how it will change your life. He moves back to Moses and his interaction with God repeating the “Look to God and live” line. Beck closes the speech reading a journal entry he wrote to his daughter. This consumes about the last 10 minutes of the speech with references to God and biblical truths.
Beck is entertaining, funny, serious and emotional. His final words are:
I leave these things with you in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Amen.
Blurring the Gospel
Intentional or not, this was a masterful move for Beck, a Mormon, to speak to Christians on their turf using biblical language. Beck issued the caveat at the beginning that he knew the Liberty crowd did not accept his faith, yet he went on to speak as if they did accept his faith. Brilliant for Beck, not so much for Liberty. Two different Jesus’ along with two different gospels were portrayed as one. And Christians wonder why the world is confused about the gospel?
The world sees a uniting around conservative “American ideals” couched in biblical language. Ironically, this approach to push for conservative values is similar to liberal Christianity’s push for liberal values through their agendas. There is little difference in blurring the gospel in liberal circles through movements like “social justice” compared to blurring it through various conservative agendas.
This is exactly how the gospel was blurred. Falwell gave Beck a platform based on Beck’s fight for American ideals. Beck went on to talk more about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the atonement, the gospel, etc. than he did about American ideals. He even called people to “turn to God and live.” Which god is Beck calling people to? The god of American idealism? Beck’s god of Mormonism? Beck assumed a common gospel from a common Lord which turns out to be no gospel at all.
It is disappointing the the world’s largest Evangelical Christian university had a Mormon come and speak about the gospel. Are accomplished Christian’s so few that none were available? Does Liberty really believe in the power of the gospel to change and influence lives? Or, is it more important to focus on and unite around social/political issues? Change laws, change lives? Change values, change lives? What happens if American society today collapses and our freedoms lost? Will the world have no hope until the freedoms are restored? Or will the gospel flourish under persecution as it did in times past and in other parts of the world today?
Liberty should have called Glenn Beck to repent and believe the good news rather than to represent and retrieve his views. Christians must regain the trust in the power of the gospel, not in its assumption. No matter the social/political circumstances the gospel of Jesus Christ provides the greatest hope of all.
Brief Comparison between Mormonism and Christianity
Mormonism | Christianity |
God | God |
Trinity | Trinity |
Jesus | Jesus |
Holy Spirit | Holy Spirit |
Salvation | Salvation |
(Glenn Beck photo credit: Gage Skidmore)
tagged as glenn beck, Liberty University in Church Issues,Culture,Gospel,heresy
About the author
Mark is a Christian, husband and father. He is a businessman by day working to support his family while attending seminary in the off hours as he prepares for vocational ministry.
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You know what’s weird to me, Mark?
What’s weird to me is that it’s even a matter for discussion (though I’m glad you’re discussing it).
When the very idea of a Mormon political teacher giving the Commencement Address (and getting an honorary doctorate) came up at some official meeting, someone in authority should have laughingly said, “Of course not. That’s ridiculous. Next idea?”, and that be the end of it.
But then for Jerry Jr. and that Prof. from Westminster Seminary to go on Beck’s TV show and discuss their Christian solidarity with Beck makes me sorta swoon like I was in some kind of Salvador Dali painting.
Forget the Emergents and Schullerists, these are the Fundamental guys!
I’m continually reminded of MacArthur’s great but sobering message to the 2007 National Day of Prayer on the “wrath of abandonment” of God.
A copy can be had for $.99 (!) at http://family.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/easy_find?Ntt=john+macarthur+national+day+of+prayer&N=0&Ntk=keywords&action=Search&Ne=0&event=ESRCN&nav_search=1&cms=1
Terry,
Do you feel like you’re in crazy land?
It really is amazing that this is even an issue.
Thanks for the MacArthur sermon. This may be the same one from GTY’s site: A Nation Abandoned by God. The audio is included at the top for download.
Mark,
Great post and a very reasoned (and biblical) perspective on the topic. Like Terry said above, I can’t believe that this is even an issue at all. The LU leadership is asleep at the wheel and I can only hope and pray that they wake up.
I expect something like this from other schools. But from a historically conservative Christian university this is flabbergasting to say the least. If a Mormon is good enough for LU then why not a Muslim? A Buddhist? How about a staunch atheist? Does Liberty have a history of knowingly giving honorary degrees to non-Christians?
What’s even worse is the response from Ergun Caner, the President and Dean of LBTS. Instead of listening with humility to the voices of fellow believers he ridicules them and tells the campus community to “rejoice” that they are being persecuted. As if persecution is the measuring stick of rightness. Like you said, Mark, we’re to rejoice when we are reviled BY UNBELIEVERS for our Kingdom work but when a brother raises concerns about our actions we are to listen to them and take their words into careful consideration.
I’m reminded of the following Proverb that I struggle with even today:
Prov. 25:12 “Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold is a wise reprover to a listening ear.”
Bottom line is that wise people who are growing spiritually appreciate rebuke because it gives them a chance to draw closer to Christ.
The primary thing we learn from this situation is that liberty U. values conservative politics more than Christian theology. It’s that simple.
ja
Daniel,
I’m not sure if there is any history of Liberty doing similar things. My understanding is that they do have people from different walks of life speak during the year.
The whole ordeal just floors me. Good comments and thanks for the encouragement.
Celebrity rules over truth at Liberty..tragic..if any believers don’t see the big deal the deepen your study of mormonism and you will be horrified at what Beck’s meaning in the scriptures he quoted was.
I cant believe it. Great article, but seriously especially amidst the Caner saga.
Oh and great tweet by Caner, is this guy for real?
Joshua,
Unfortunately, he is for real and endorsed by LU and many Christians.
I personally contacted Dr. Elmer towns about this issue, since he was one of the founders of LU. This was his response:
“I received your email and praises for Dr. Jerry Falwell. Make sure that you are not inconsistent in what you are saying. On two occasions Dr. Falwell invited Mormons to speak at our convocation. Glenn Beck is the third one. You praise Dr. Falwell, yet you criticize Liberty. One of the persons that we invited years ago was the Secretary of the Interior who was a great supporter of Moral Majority. He was invited for his political conservative stand. However, later he did become a Pentecostal.
We do not invite people to speak at our Commencement because of their Christian stand. If you remember last year Ben Stein spoke at our graduation and he is a Jew and we had him because of his stand on creation and the existence of God.
You asked for a public apology. Dr. Falwell is with the Lord, so he cannot apologize for what he did. I am sure you don’t want us to apologize for following his example.”
Elmer L. Towns
If Beck’s speech had been political and not religious, and if that was the theme, perhaps you could rationalize it. However, when I wrote Dr. Towns I mentioned 2 John 1:10 and questioned how that played out in this event. Ephesians 5:11 says not to participate in the deeds of darkness, and I believe this was one. It is an attempt to grey the lines between Christianity and Mormons, and to give them acceptance as just another Christian “branch”. This would be equally confusing to the young and impressionable saved as well as the onlooking lost. If you are a Pentecostal it does not mean you are in a cult. Jews are not in a cult, though they are denying the fulfillment of God’s promise in Christ. (Perhaps that’s another discussion.) Mormonism was created in contradiction to Christianity and called the Christian churches apostate. This is subversive liberalism in conservative clothing. I later told Dr. Towns that the Pharisees and Pagans were not asked to speak to the 70 as Jesus sent them out. What is the difference here? This is hurting the name of Baptists, and more importantly the name of Christ. Perhaps next we will have Jehovah’s Witnesses to speak on community service, or Muslims to speak against abortion, or a Buddhist to speak on foreign policy, or Hindus to speak on social reform, or Scientologists to speak on healthcare reform. This was graduation for a Baptist, conservative, Christian college. The religion Beck espouses is an anti-Christ. Mormonism is not harmless, it is evil. Most Christian colleges will not even accept you if you, and the church you are a member of, do not hold to the basic tenants of the Christian faith. Here Beck got an honorary degree, and the Mormon faith was affirmed. The worst part is, most people didn’t even mind.
I honestly don’t know which bothers me more, that LU, a professing Christian school, invites those to speak who reject the Christian faith… or that more Christians aren’t bothered by this… or that I’m not the least bit shocked about it.
It seems more and more that real, genuine Biblical Christianity is rather rare, and what is far more popular is this lovey-dovey “lets all find what unites us” fluffy mentality of spirituality, passing as Christianity.
Caner’s tweet didn’t surprise me at all. He’s always come across to me as very arrogant and in-your-face. I’d like to be wrong about that, but that is the impression he leaves with me.
It’s a truly sad day in the church at large, but I praise God for brothers and sisters who DO get why this is important, and who will not stand united with unbelievers in situations as this. I mean come on, if it were a community yard sale or county fair, totally different story. But the commencement speech at a Christian university? Completely unacceptable. Shame on Caner and LU.
Well said. Caner almost ‘tinkled’ in his pants with excitement when Beck, a Mormon, cried out: ‘Turn to God and live!’ Would he do the same of a Muslim would cry out: ‘Turn to ‘ALLAH’ and live!’????
–chadwick
It has been the case for many years that typically at the graduation ceremony a political or values-oriented individual is the speaker and a CHRISTIAN religious leader is the speaker at the baccalaureate service. I would guess that LU wished Beck had not talked about faith as distinctly as he did as opposed to more generically because of his Mormon faith. But I after they invited him I would also guess they wanted to be a good host and not slam the guy after he was a bit more “religious” than they expected. I doubt you will see a repeat of this in the future……although I’m sure they will continue to have non-Christians speak for graduation. I’m fine with that.
Just out of interest…..how do you know Caner did that?
Chadwick,
Your remark about tinkling is a bit over the top. Although it does make me feel about five again.
It would be very interesting if Liberty would ever consider having a politically conservative Muslim speak. If not, why not? If they did and the Muslim did say “Turn to Allah and live” I wonder if there would be any response afterward.
Bereansearch,
That is very interesting reasoning Dr. Towns replied with. It sounds like his standard on which to consider your challenge is other men’s actions rather than God’s word. We could justify just about anything with this type of standard. It’s easy to find someone else who has done something worse than you or something that was but shouldn’t have been accepted in the past. How this is line of reasoning offers a solid rational to dismiss a biblical concern is beyond me.
It would be very interesting to know which representatives of other faiths would be acceptable to speak at LU.
Carla,
What bothers me about your comment is that I can agree with it!
ASH,
Doesn’t having non-Christian (anti-Christian?) speakers go against Liberty’s positions statements which I quoted above?
Yes, same message. Thanks, I’ve often wanted a link to send someone to, without them having to buy a DVD
Excellent analysis. I had not seen Ergun’s tweet. Very disappointing response, but consistent with what I have seen and heard of him. Seems the leadership at LU is lacking good judgement:
1. Hiring and promoting Ergun Caner
2. Waiting and waiting and waiting to investigate Ergun
3. Making strange comments over the Caner affair to CT writer such as “It’s not an an ethical issue, it’s not a moral issue,” (????)
4. Wiping their website with no explanation
5. Forcing Mohammed Khan off YouTube, at least for a short time.
6. Inviting Beck to speak
As someone who was saved by grace out of the heresy of mormonism, I found it appalling that Liberty would claim to stand first and foremost for the Gospel and then invite with open arms an unbeliever who blasphemes the name of Christ. Maybe Christopher Hitchens could speak next year? Liberty proves yet again that the cult of celebrity beats out the Gospel.
Miguel,
It’s interesting that you mentioned the CT article. We discussed it in my Christian ethics class. Everyone, including the professor as I recall, disagreed with what LU’s leadership said. It is most certainly an ethical issue.
Arthur,
As one who came out of a sect of Mormonism, the RLDS, I feel the same way.
All – someone on twitter asked an interesting question. Why did the blogs not react the same way over Liberty inviting Beck as they did over Piper inviting Warren?
jM,
There is much I can agree with, especially the quotes from the Chancellor. However, I think there is a bigger problem. You wrote,
“Although some may say it was only a Commencement speech, it may also be one of the last speeches those graduates hear as they are sent out into the world for Christ.”
I have yet to figure out how a school, which is really established to get Christians into the political sphere, can be charged with the power that belongs to the local church. I mean really, what does the Gospel have to do with a particular brand of American politics?
Don’t get me wrong. I am as patriotic as the next guy. I desire to see the Constitution restored and followed. However, let’s say every state becomes prolife, does it follow that every state will become exactly alike in its government simply because Christians are in political power? I doubt it.
“Did Beck say anything troubling or confusing? Jerry Falwell, Jr. introduced Beck by conferring the honorary doctorate due to Beck’s “tireless efforts to preserve the American ideal.” I would probably agree with this American ideal, yet how does this relate to Liberty’s Christ-centered vision?”
You raise the great question when you noticed that Beck was supposed to comment on the American ideal but instead went talking about faith. Should we be surprised when a Christian school concerns itself primarily with the American ideals (whatever form that may be from one state to another) while claiming to be about the faith? The categories are clearly confused, therefore we should not be surprised when lines are blatantly crossed.
Faith does play a role in the American experiment. It is an experiment in which the people are self-governing and therefore only a religious and morally upright people can exist under such a form of government. However, with that kind of freedom comes the opportunity for self-destruction. It is precisely in the power of the pulpit and not the political sphere that such an experiment may continue.
In conclusion
To be honest, although I agree with many of the concerns you raise, I am not certain what the answer really is. Why would Beck not be allowed to speak at a politically oriented school? Why would Beck not speak about the role of faith in a self-governing nation? If we are truly a religiously free people, isn’t that the idea of the Founders. Let not men nor government get in the way of a man who is seeking after God?
Liberty is not a church, yet is an institution supported by the church. That is the difficulty.
1.
From: Tom [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 2:09 AM
To: Towns, Elmer L.
Subject: Glenn Beck
Dear Dr Towns,
Could you please pass this around and see if you could get the “powers that be” at Liberty to make a public apology for the Commencement address delivered to your graduates and twenty plus thousand friends and family members. To make a mistake is one thing but to act as if nothing went wrong is another.
Tom Garito
I just got back from spending two days at Liberty University for my daughter’s graduation. Before the trip we had been discussing Liberty’s choice of having Glenn Beck as the commencement speaker. Since I appreciate the braveness of Glenn Beck and his willingness to expose the political agenda of many who do not have America’s best interest at heart, I was not as upset as my daughter at the choice. This was despite the fact that he is a Mormon. Truly America faces political dangers unmatched since the time of the American Revolution; so a wake up message from him to the 28,000 in attendance would have been somewhat acceptable to me.
However, that was not the message. Beck spent the majority of his time propagandizing for the Mormon Church. He did a masterful job of using Christian terminology to make naïve listeners think more kindly of his Mormon beliefs and perhaps even come away thinking that the Mormon Church is really Christian and even orthodox in its beliefs. His mention of “Jesus”, “God”, “The Holy Spirit”, “the Atonement” with admiration was extremely deceiving. Again, to lecture about politics is one thing, but for a Mormon to be given a platform to lecture about “the power of faith”, “Jesus”, “God”, “The Holy Spirit” and the “atonement” was extremely disturbing and even heart breaking to me. One of my daughter’s friends who attended was so touched that she said she “almost cried seven times” during his message.
Wouldn’t you think that with all the theologians present for that message, warnings of deception and a call for repentance would be demanded? With just a few minutes of digging anyone interested could easily ascertain that Mormonism has a different “Jesus”, a different “God”, a different “Holy Spirit” and a different “atonement” than the genuine which are clearly revealed in the Bible?
I guess it is just another sign of the times. “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived”. 2 Tim 3:13
Tom Garito
Watch speech here:
http://www.therightscoop.com/video-glenn-becks-liberty-university-commencement-address
2.
From: Towns, Elmer L. [mailto:***@liberty.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 8:36 AM
To: Tom
Subject: RE: Glenn Beck
Thank you for your concern about Glenn Beck and the message that he gave. Listen very carefully to what he said at the beginning, “I did not come to have you reinforce my faith, I came to reinforce your faith.” Recently we heard from David Barton who was on his program that Glenn Beck prayed to receive Christ. Does that help at all? We were aware of this he came to speak.
3.
From: Tom [mailto:***@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 5:40 PM
To: ‘eltowns@liberty.edu’
Subject: RE: Glenn Beck
Dear Dr Towns,
Thank you for your quick response to my e-mail. Yes, It would greatly help to know that Glenn Beck “prayed to receive Christ”. However, in an age of “assumptive language”, it is increasingly necessary to establish a clarification of terms. The question is: does Glenn Beck understand that the true Jesus of the Bible is not the same as the Jesus of Mormonism. One is God’s only begotten Son. The other is an imposter, “the brother of Lucifer”. Since one cannot serve two masters, the next question that needs clarification is: When Glenn Beck “prayed to receive Christ” did he disavow any allegiance to the False Jesus of Mormonism? The Bible is clear that if a person has two gods, he cannot claim the atoning blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
If Glenn Beck is a true Christian he must repent and reject his previous false religion. Did he do that? If he did and is acting as a missionary to the Mormon people from inside of that organization, then I rejoice with the angles in heaven, will pray for him and refrain from speaking further on the matter. If he did not, then Liberty University is remiss for choosing Glenn Beck (a cult member) to be the spokesperson who could best “reinforce” the faith of its students.
And “yes” Dr Towns I did “listen very carefully” and maintain that if Glenn Beck is trying to serve two gods or any god other than the one true God “creator of heaven and earth”, then he cannot without the washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirit speak with the wisdom necessary to “reinforce” the faith of Christians. For such a person to be chosen to speak about “the power of faith” is again ”remiss” on the part of Liberty University which would need to publicly repent for its error.
I pray that Glenn Beck has experienced true conversion and that he will grow in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. What a powerful witness he could be for the cause of Christ.
Tom Garito
4. Two weeks later on national TV with Dr Falwell present, Glenn Beck is still professing his Mormon Faith. Again, I am fan of Glenn Beck but he was simply the wrong choice to “reinforce” the faith of Liberty graduates. Beck was just as wrong a choice as would have been Ahmadinejad or Osama bin Laden. All three have a different jesus’ who will lead the unsuspecting to an eternity in Hell. Hell is Hell and it doesn’t really matter which one leads a soul to its gates. Actually the Mormon jesus is more subtle and therefore more dangerous to Christians.
I suspect that deep down every staff member of the “School of Religion” knows that. What I don’t know is; are there any brave enough speak up?
Tom Garito
Howard,
I think you missed that my analysis was based on Liberty’s own official proclamations of its purpose and mission, etc. for Christ. They state they are training Christians for all walks of life, not just those with political aspirations.
Tom,
Thank you for sharing this exchange. I’m a little surprised, yet I’m not sure why. The point I tried to show in the post is that by inviting Beck, Liberty is going against its own Christ-centered vision. Dr. Towns’ answer does not seem to care about the gospel, rather he seems to care more about American politics. Amazing!
What do you think he would say about having a conservative Muslim or Jehovah’s Witness speak?
Mark,
No, I didn’t miss that, and I agree with your assessment coming from your premise. It was the premise that I struggle with. Is it merely a Christian school trying to fulfill the great commission? If so, then how are they accountable to the local church? If they are accountable to the local church as a Christian institution, then your analysis is right on.
But my bigger question is how can it be a Christian institution and be about saving the American experiment or the American way of life or whatever we call it. The American government as founded is not Christian. That is the myth I was attempting to point out (however poorly).
Is it possible that other, just as Christian schools doctrinally, be about arguing for a more centralized government?
I guess I should ask the question another way. America is a religiously free nation. So why would Beck not argue for faith in the political realm? The fact that he is deceived about Mormonism is a huge problem from a Christian standpoint. But it is not necessarily one from a political standpoint (although I know conservative Christian will disagree, but then conservative Christians at the time of the founding of this nation disagreed about politics too, which is my point).
The school needs to make up its mind. Is it s Christian school that teaches about the world from a broad Christian perspective and prepares men and women to serve in their respective secular vocations? Or is it a school that is about preparing Christians with a particular secular perspective, thereby possibly confusing church and state issues?
Is it a church or a school or a political institution? As far as I can tell, it is attempting to do what Protestant Liberals have tried to do in the past. That is, saving the culture for Christ.
Again, I highly doubt that Liberty expected nor desired that Beck spoke of “biblical doctrine”. That he is Mormon doesn’t change the mission or the vision of the school. Critics here have thus far not responded to the fact that traditionally including this year, the baccalaureate address is made by a Christian leader and the graduation speech is made by a political person. This does indeed reflect the actuality of the school since I went there 25 years ago. It has always been a Christian school with a strong political bent. The baccalaureate address this year was given by Dr. Paige Patterson, president of an SBC seminary. There WAS a difference this year however….Patterson also had a part in the graduation ceremony as well.
Having a speaker who doesn’t share the faith is tantamount to having a textbook from an author who doesn’t share the faith but is qualified in his subject field to share his knowledge to a Christian university. I just think Beck went into territory that LU didn’t expect and were gracious hosts not to make a big deal out of…….rightly or wrongly.
Ash,
Giving LU the benefit of the doubt, you may be correct that Beck simply “went into territory that LU didn’t expect”. Where you are very wrong is that it is not “gracious” to let religious deception pour from an address without a peep of disclaimer or warning concerning the false doctrine that went forth from a huge Liberty supplied platform.
I agree that Beck is qualified in his subject field (politics) but that is not what he talked about. He talked about “faith”. On that topic he is far from being a person qualified to speak at a “Christian University”.
As I said in my post above, “Beck was just as wrong a choice as would have been Ahmadinejad or Osama bin Laden. All three have a different jesus’ who will lead the unsuspecting to an eternity in Hell. Hell is Hell and it doesn’t really matter which one leads a soul to its gates. Actually the Mormon jesus is more subtle and therefore more dangerous to Christians.”
“Ho Hum, So What?” “Political correctness should trump doctrine anyhow.” This is increasingly the church of today. The Bible calls it the “Leodocean Church”.
Tom Garito
ASH, you said
What I’ve quoted from LU’s mission/vision is in direct opposition to this statement as far as I can tell. I understand what has historically been practiced, but I’m asking how Beck and his Mormonism fit with what I’ve quoted.
I understand what you are saying but there IS a time and a place to be gracious. There are plenty, like us, doing the work of letting the few unsuspecting people know what Beck said is not Christian doctrine. (The truth is the critics have made more people hear the offensive words then would have ever known otherwise.) God’s church is safe no matter what we do or they did. In that we can rest. There is no reason IMO to be rude and embarrass someone who “went off-script” after you were the one to invite him.
This entire episode is symptomatic of evangelicalism’s failure to rightly identify, articulate, or defend the gospel once for all delivered to the saints. When someone claims that a religious Jew, such as Ben Stein, has a “stand on creation and the existence of God” they prove evangelicalism simply wouldn’t know the gospel if it were in front of them. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has a “stand on creation and the existence of God” virtually identical to Stein’s. If the self-attesting Christ of Scripture, as the Bible portrays and explains him to be, is not part of that “creation” and “existence of God” equation, the “stand” is at best a mirage, at worst, a ruse.
Ash,
Who was rude and who was trying to embarrass someone who “went off-script”. Telling the “truth in love” is the only proper Christian response. Eph. 4:14-15
Tom
I cant believe you so called Christians… The ONLY religion that can truley witness and testify by first hand knowlege that your claims are true you persecute. Mormons have always testified of Christ, He is the Center of thier faith and yes they have differing information…But the source of the information you ridicule and trust in the hand of man. If you Christians held any of your leaders, or writings or even the Founding of your religions honestly to the same standards you use for mormonism you would have to deny any religion is true and all are cults. I doubt you could be so honest because of the hipocritical and holier than thou attitude that permiates modern theology. The Scribes and Pharasies of today… Shame on you all
Ron,
Two problems:
1. You don’t know what the concept of “holiness” is, yet you use the cliche “holier than thou”, as though there really wasn’t a true thing called holiness.
Holiness is that concept of being “separated from” or “separated out of” or “separated to” something or someone.
Born-again Christians are separated out of the world spiritually by God, and separated to the Lord Jesus Christ by Him.
In that sense they are indeed “holier” than someone who is not thus spiritually separated.
That’s not something for them to brag about, since God did the miraculous work in their hearts by grace. But it’s true nonetheless.
Part of their responsibility, however, is to acknowledge that spiritual separation, and to honor the One who thus saved them.
To pretend that they were unchanged and just like those who were not saved and spiritually separated out is to dishonor the Lord Who accomplished it.
That’s what LU does when they put a famous politico before their students for their last “message” before going out into the world of adult workers and business people.
2. You fail to see the logic of the case, which even a logically thinking unbeliever should readily see — that is, that if the core of your institution’s mission is “A”, and a speaker is anti-”A”, you should not invite that speaker to inspire your members to “commence” with their lives.
Microsoft would be foolish to invite Steve Jobs to launch Windows 7.
GM would be foolish to invite the President of Ford Motor Company to launch the new Escalade.
Ron, are you the “Ron” that I have the arrest warrant out for? You need to tell me where you are so I can have you picked up. Okay?
Wait! You’re not that “Ron”? How can I be sure since “Ron” is the one who testified to committing the crimes? You may even claim that you are not the same Ron based differing information. But is that an acceptable distinction?
I hope you see my point.
It is because Christians us the standards we do that we can deny all other religions, including Mormonism, is true. Christians are not playing the Pharisee card. We aren’t better than anyone. It is exactly the opposite that we are not better than anyone else, but that we all need Christ.
I suppose even Joseph Smith was Pharisaical by claiming he had the total truth rather than the apostate Christians of his time. Even Glenn Beck and Liberty believe they are correct in their political ideals and that their positions are the right ones.
You may want to read Playing the Pharisee Card.
This is the third time you have brought this up Mark. With respect, I think you might be being a bit presumptuous. Better that Liberty decide what fits into their mission/vision than us. Just consider the name of the institution; “LIBERTY”. Besides, their tradition DOES scream loudly. Seems hard to imagine anyone goes to the school unaware of it’s political bent. But let me post a couple of the things that fits into their “Aims” from the same web page you quote from:
AIMS
In support of its Philosophy and Mission, Liberty University seeks to develop the whole person by providing its students with intellectual and cultural pursuits that:
1. Contribute to a knowledge and understanding of other cultures and of international events.
2. Promote an understanding of the Western tradition and the diverse elements of American cultural history, especially the importance of the individual in maintaining democratic and free market processes.
…snip…
I think that covers quite clearly the political nature of the school. Now we can argue whether it should be or not but there is no doubt that it is, has been, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Again…Honesty…..you cannot be serious…you miss the point totally…WAIT..YOU Make my point here…exactly what I mean. Thank you
If you are trying to sell your product…AKA Baptists, Lutherans, etc..Then of course you dont want competition.. BUT if your product is Truth…
I am not going to feed into useless debait about religions but you have to admit you have a double standard when it comes to the lds church’s doctrines and the origin of them than you have for your own. BE Honest with yourself.
Why would you presume to know what I dont or do know… Why attack? I guess its because thats what a persecutor does…My point is the double standard and the group think of modern theology not wheather one religion is right or not…
It seems counter productive to claim the an eyewitness to something you claim to exist (The very existance of God) you discredit…That someone states that he recieved revelation as a man from God you want to claim him a heiritic…
Is not the common interest of man be to find truth? From All sources?
The claim that the LDS folks have made are no more fantastic as someone claiming a man raised another from the dead. Or raised himself…
OR
Is it really the idea that your sect might be wrong about some things and that will threaten your paradigm…
Hi ASH,
Yes, I did bring this issue up more than once. I will tell you why I don’t believe I’m being presumptuous. To do so I will put the quotes you offered into context. First, the “Aims” are preceded by the “Philosophy” and “Mission” on their “Purpose/Mission” page, emphasis mine.
The quotes you provided come next and fall under the title of “Aims” as you said which states (emphasis mine):
This is why I believe inviting a Mormon, or any other representative from a non-Christian perspective, as Liberty did with Beck, violates their own stated positions. Especially, this sentence:
Ash, I’m not mad, but I am happy to disagree with you about this. I do appreciate your comments which have made me think a little more deeply and, hopefully, clearly.
Chad, great insightful comment.
Ron,
I can see that you don’t need more debate over a Commencement Address speaker, or even over us Christians who fall short but serve a perfect Lord.
What you need is to believe in the [true] Jesus Christ, the one who is God, and Who created the Universe, and who came to Earth as a man, while remaining God, and died on the Cross for sins, and was buried and rose again on the third day.
His salvation is a free gift, having nothing to do with the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, or LDS doctrine.
Contrary to the teachings of Mormonism, there is only one God, not multitudes.
And it is He who has revealed the Good News of Jesus Christ, that if you will change your mind about your sins, and change your mind about Jesus Christ, and believe in Him as Savior and Lord, He will forgive your sins and give you eternal life and declare you righteous, in right standing with God.
“By grace [a free gift] are you saved, through faith. Not of works [LDS or otherwise], lest anyone should boast.” – Ephesians 2:8,9
With love, that’s what I pray for you. May the Lord open your heart.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s never my desire to disagree disagreeably. Of course we do disagree but be that as it may. Blessings to you.
Download my free eBook at FreeJesusGifts.com Please send comments on my book positive and negative.
Read below why LU disgraced Christianity by inviting Glenn Beck to their commencement and then honored him with an Honorable Doctorate. God help us!
Of all the sins committed against God, what is the worst? We all immediately think of Hitler, Mao Tse-tung and Stalin including many others. However, when satan decided to overthrow the throne of God, that was the greatest sin of all eternity. Due to satan’s sin, God created hell and threw satan and 1/3 of the angels into hell with him. Obviously believing you can become God, is not something most of us would want to do or support. Why do Mormons? Also, see chapter 39 above again. Really!
When you read the 10 Commandments, please notice the first four commandments are directly related to the Majesty of God. It’s very obvious where God places Himself in the priority of the greatest laws ever written. Again, don’t mess with God!
I. “I am the LORD your God…
II. “You shall have no other gods before me…
III. “You shall not make for yourself an idol…
IV. You shall not bow down to them or worship them…
Note: We have seven LDS Mormons in our family. Please pray their eyes may be opened soon.
All the information listed below is verified with complete proof of content. Gov. Romney believes and practices the following Mormon doctrines and again I believe the American people have a right to know this information.
Here’s a small summary and then the documented proof of just a few of the false Mormon teachings.
1. God was only a man before becoming God.
2. Mormons teach there is no Virgin birth.
3. Mormons teach God became man to impregnate Mary for Jesus.
Note: Number 3 is possibly BLASPHEMY! (See J. K. and L. Below).
4. Mormons believe there are an infinite number of gods in the universe.
5. Mormon doctrines teach they will become individual gods upon death?
6. Mormons disagree that belief in Jesus alone is all that is needed for salvation.
7. Many more such beliefs by the LDS Mormons, are found in their books such as: Milton R. Hunter, Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15 “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, son of the morning. Haughty, ambitious, and covetous of power and glory, this sprit-filled “brother of Jesus” desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.”
Note: As you can see above Mormons LDS believe satan is Jesus’ brother. You will find that most Mormons LDS have a difficult time admitting this belief to others. Mormons LDS use the term “spirit-filled” brother of Jesus, trying to contradict what their own words say. After all, we know the Holy Spirit is part of the triune God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In Heaven we will all be spirits too.
Their argument is void of common sense, because I believe their real intent is to promote what they consider a better PR (Public Relations) for Mormons LDS. They call themselves Christians however, they know Bible believing Christians would never believe Jesus and satan were brothers. See Chapters 8 and 39 for reference.
Several more Documented publications of the LDS Mormons beliefs below:
A. The beliefs of the LDS church that contradict the Bible – as documented in publications of the church or verified public statements made by church officials including: There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.) And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light: and there was light (Book of Abraham 4:3)
B. There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.)
C. God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516.)
D. “The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand counselors sat at the head in yonder heavens, and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at that time.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “King Follet Discourse,” Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, pp. 1-11)
E. “In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “King Follet Discourse,” Journal of Discourses, Volume 6, pp. 1-11)
F. After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)
G. The whole design of the gospel is to lead us, onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (Gordon B. Hinckley, Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p.179)
H. The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fullness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fullness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.48)
I. That exalted position was made manifest to me at a very early day. I had a direct revelation of this. It was most perfect and complete. If there ever was a thing revealed to man perfectly, clearly, so that there could be no doubt or dubiety, this was revealed to me, and it came in these words: “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.” (Lorenzo Snow, The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, p.5)
And…
J. “Christ was begotten of God. He was not born without the aid of Man, and that Man was God!” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 1:, p.18)
K. “Now, we are told in scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God in the flesh. Well, now for the benefit of the older ones, how are children begotten? I answer just as Jesus Christ was begotten of his father.”
L. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was begotten not of God, but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. This is nonsense. Why will not the world receive the truth? Why will they not believe the Father when he says that Jesus Christ is His only begotten Son? Why will they try to explain this truth away and make mystery of it?” (James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965-75), 4:, p.329)
M. “If Jesus had been a mere mortal he too would have been subject to death and thus unable to save either himself or others. The physical Jesus was born of Mary, a mortal woman; but he was the literal, biological son in the flesh of God the Father, from whom he received power over death.” (Robert J. Matthews, Behold the Messiah , p.12)
N. “These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only; Begotten means begotten; and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers.” (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed., p.546)
O. “The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood – was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8: p. 115).
P. “Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers” (Mormon Doctrine,” by Bruce McConkie, p. 547).
Q. “Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods” (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.245).
R. “God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-346).
S. “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become” (“We know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”) 2 Nephi 25:23 (emphasis added) This “scripture” is explained in the LDS church-published reference work Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball on page 206:
T. “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (emphasis added) Prophet Lorenzo Snow quoted in The Gospel Through the Ages, Hunter, p.105-106).
NOTE: All of the above Mormon claims are in direct contradiction to the teachings of Christianity as contained in the Holy Bible. While we invite readers and listeners comments, both positive and negative, we must insist that our discourse be based on factual information. As long as the actual teachings of Mormonism that contradict Christianity are denied, such a conversation cannot take place.
Study and Remember : The first four of the Ten Commandments above!
I apologize, this should have been in front of my last submission.
40 ~ Bishop & Governor Romney’s Mormon Teachings
Is Gov. Romney running for President, God or both???
My motivation for presenting this information, is to advise people of the false teachings of the Mormon church. Gov. Romney’s continual influence, by being seen regularly in the national media will undoubtedly draw many to the Mormon church. Please help me get this information out to the people, which could save many souls.
I believe the American people have a right to know this documented information. (See documentation below.) Gov. Romney’s church teaches there are millions of gods in the universe. They teach that if their members do enough good works they will become gods. The higher degree of good works they do will influence their rank as gods when they die. (Read Chapter 39 again!)
Gov. Romney’s church teaches this and encourages all of their people to work towards this goal. Gov. Romney has attained some high positions in his lifetime including Governor of Massachusetts. Gov. Romney has been taught that acquiring such a high position would assure him of a very high rank of god in the future. No wonder he is willing to spend millions upon millions of his own dollars to attain the position of President.
The Bible instructs us to not wish people who believe these types of teachings God’s speed. It also says that if we do, we are committing the same sin as the these false teachings. Voting for Gov. Romney for president is definitely wishing him God’s speed. I wouldn’t do that, would you?
Isaiah 43:10 “Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me.”
(Seems pretty clear to me.)
2 Samuel 7:22 “You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You.”
Note: Many more verses in Chapter 8, Jesus is God.
2nd John 9-11 KJV Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
“One God”
Isaiah 43:10 NIV “Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me.”
Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”
2 Samuel 7:22 “You are great, O Lord God; for there is none like You, and there is no God besides You.”
1 Chronicles 17:20 “O Lord, there is none like You, nor is there any God besides you…”
Isaiah 44:6 “I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.”
Isaiah 44:8 “Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one.”
Isaiah 46:9 “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me.”
Mark 12:29 “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.”
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 17:3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God.”
1 Corinthians 8:4 “There is no God but one.”
1 Timothy 1:17 “Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God.”
James 2:19 “You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.”
Jude 25 “The only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”
Note: The above are only some of the verses which show there are no other gods. Nothing more I can really say, the Bible says it all anyway.
~ Is Jesus God? Study the Following Bible Verses and Make Your Decision
Mark 14:61-62 NIV “But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?” “I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of Heaven.”
Colossians 2:8-9 NIV “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
Colossians 1:15-20 NIV “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created: things in Heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him.
He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have the supremacy.
For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in Heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross.”
John 14:6 NIV “Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
Matthew 16:13-17 NIV “When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in Heaven.”
Luke 22:70 NIV “They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You are right in saying I am.”
John 15:17-23 NIV Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at His work to this very
day, and I, too, am working.” For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.”
Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by Himself; He can do only what He sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does.
Yes, to your amazement He will show Him even greater things than these. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom He is pleased to give it.”
“Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent Him.”
Acts 4:12 NIV “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under Heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
1 Timothy 2:5-6 NIV “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all men the testimony given in its proper time.”
John 10:30 NIV “I and the Father are one.”
Isaiah 9:6 NIV “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Revelations 1:17-18 KJV And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelations 1:17-18 NIV When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Note: The KJV and NIV in the two verses above are almost exactly the same.
Note: Jesus is the only person who has ever claimed He is God. If you believe the Bible is true, how could you possibly doubt that Jesus is God? Again, don’t take my word, study for yourself.
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Note: Don’t expect to learn Jesus is God at very many of our churches today. We have met well known “Christians” and “leaders” with over 50 years in their church, who did not know Jesus is God. Again, if we can’t teach that our Savior, Jesus Christ is God, what’s being taught in most churches? In my opinion, not much.
I have sent the fifty year Christians the above Bible verses to convince them of what the Bible does teach.
This couple has sung Gospel songs all over the world. They thanked me and were quite concerned they didn’t know just who Jesus actually is.
You can be sure that I emailed them the following verses too.
2 Timothy 2:15 and John 14:26. I sure hope they have begun studying the Bible for themselves.
Hebrews 1:3 NIV “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in Heaven.”
John 14:6 NIV Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Vic,
Thanks for all the info. I pray your relatives eyes are opened and they come out of the LDS organization.
Let ma start by saying that as an atheist, I don’t have a dog in this fight.
However, as an American observer of faith and politics, I find that the only two words that describe the relationship between Beck and Liberty University to be “unholy alliance”. As pointed out in the article, Mormons have a heretical view of religion from the Christian perspective. The only conclusion that can be drawn, then, is that one of America’s top Bible-thwackin’ schools lets political similarities trump theological differences.
For Liberty U to be looking to the Mormons for political alliances is an indicator of how compromised the political power of the religious right has become. I believe that you would say that this is a plague you have brought down on your own house, by attempting to mix politics and religion with divisive wedge issues and religious purity tests. Your electorate grows weary; when the people you tell us to vote for are on the “right” side of the abortion issue but they destroy the economy, move wealth up the food chain, pick unnecessary and illegal wars, and so on, it makes you seem puny and wrong for bringing up the “abortion purity test” during a campaign. The most radical elements of the right appear to have abandoned the GOP altogether, leaving the religious right to choose which side you’re on.
I’m no friend of Liberty U or the Falwell gang. But as much as I disagree with the way Liberty attempts to subjugate all of us with a theocratic agenda, the Mormons are that times 10 times 10 on steroids. The Mormons have every city block of the civilized world mapped out and assigned to a member. The Mormons plan is to replace the representative democratic government of the US with the Priesthood. They have successfully engaged in two political campaigns about social wedge issues and WON (Prop 8 and Question 1) which is more than the religious right can say about anything you’ve done lately. (No, killing abortion doctors and getting Bill O’Reilly to say “Tiller the Killer” doesn’t count as “winning”).
I stopped by here because I’m doing an article about the Tea Party movement, actually the 3rd in a series, and this one is to cover the delicate relationship between Mormons and Christians in the Tea Party. When I started writing this series last winter, I believed that the Tea Party would fracture on religious lines. Now I’m not so sure; it appears that Beck is doing a soft sell on Christians, convincing the ignorant that Mormons are just like Methodists to Baptists.
My advice to you Christians, and of course, since I’m atheist, take it or leave it. I know about Mormons. They are masters of weasel words, deception, and lies of omission. If you do political business with the Mormons they will use you like toilet paper and dump you without thinking twice.
-Wexler
A response to Wexler. Some of the points raised were exactly what I attempted to raise but was stated far better, and I appreciate Wexler’s pointing out the what should be obvious. Referring to the political alliance as an “unholy alliance” was well stated. Politics certainly makes for strange bed-fellows. For instance, the statement that LU is “attempting to mix politics and religion with divisive wedge issues and religious purity tests” is certainly a problem.
Also the criticism that Mormonism is the political right on steriods used to be right on. He writes, “The Mormons plan is to replace the representative democratic government of the US with the Priesthood.”
This statement is probably true in that originally, with Mormon’s cultic beginnings and expansion to the west, was no doubt a part of the American historical culture. I just don’t know that such a monolithic view of Mormonism today can remain a reality.
Much of this is a fear of those of believe in God/Creator being in the public sphere at all. For instance, this statement is telling of the certain presuppositions that cause the Left to fear the Right and vice versa.
“When I started writing this series last winter, I believed that the Tea Party would fracture on religious lines.”
It “seems” to be part of the fear of the “Left” (if I may be so bold as to use that term) that the Religious Right wants to establish a theocracy. Of course, that is patently absurd. The irony, is that many theological liberals that vote democratic are attempting to enforce their religious views by forcing everyone to pay for a bankrupt welfare state and the unconstitutional social security program, Global Warming and ect ect. The Left believes it can appeal to itself as the ultimate authority, hence, we already have our Theocracy
Atheists will always fear the “religious right”, for no matter what the Religious Right says or does, they will be seen as those who live in Medievel times and the horrendous persecution of the so-called church against the average citizen, while ignoring the Reformation as giving the basis for the modern forms of governments that we live under (I recognize the enlightenment era also was a major part of this as well.). And the Religious Right will always fear the Political religious/atheist Left for the dominant secular humanism. Wexler seems to just assume that public schools teaching evolution is as right as the earth is round and that anyone who disagrees is a flat earther. By this foundation for society, which is far more prevalent and government sponsored than anything the religious right has to offer, the religious right obviously has far more to fear than anything mormonism has done.
The statement also seems to assume that the Tea Party movement is religious in nature. The idea that people of all stripes are seeing the overthrow of Constitutional government that is in fact happening right in front of them are merely hallucinating is simply naive at best. I have had several left of center friends tell me how insane I am for thinking the government is trying to do exactly what the Tea Party members fear. It is as if the $400 billion TARP bill, health care, ect never became laws and how sickening the government used scare tactics to assert itself to assume power we would never have given to it through normal means. I mean seriously, the Patriot Act is nothing compared to what Obama has done.
Now that I have gone off the reservation of the points Wexler has raised, I’ll come back. Conservative Christians, like their atheist counter-parts, love their country and want to see the best for their kids. It has always been a temptation for Christians to try to save their cultures (this is not unique to the U.S.) by using man-made ideas. On the one hand, what is wrong with that? On the other hand, why confuse or do anything political in the Name of Jesus? His Kingdom is not of this world’s system.
So the Christian has a problem or a tension. He must on the one hand live a life governed by the King, who is ruling at the Right Hand of God now. On the other hand, he must live a life next door to his muslim/atheist/hindu neighbor, who is not a citizen of that heavenly Kingdom and treat his neighbor as one made in the image of God. Saving a country politically that stands for free speech ect is a great thing. Saving a man’s soul is an entirelly different sphere.
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