Thanks for dropping by.

I'm even willing to defend a ministry to some extent on by its fruit. It seems the real problem comes when we are unwilling to biblical discern were some indiscretions may lie. We need to be willing to do this to ourselves (especially if we teach) as well as those who teach us.

Whatever the amount of good fruit produced it must be measured with Scripture or we really don't know how good it is. So no one misunderstands, I am aiming at myself here too.

Obviously numerical success alone does not indicate God's blessing.

I'll give a short breakdown of your list all of which are commonly heard arguments:

“God is clearly blessing this ministry. Just look at all the good they do.”—What is meant by “good?” If it is seeing large numbers of true conversions and the people are growing in grace, then it would no doubt appear to have God's blessing. But very often this is merely an attempt to defend large ministries, with the idea being they name the name of Christ and are drawing large crowds, thus God's blessing must be upon them.

“I’ve seen more people grow, etc. using their teachings.”—*As with the above this hinges on the definition of growth.

“God would not let such growth of said ministry if it weren’t solid.” See #1. We see from the NT that already there were heretics leading people astray.

#4 is similar to #2.

“Just look at the number of people they touch.” Touch in what way? Is an emotional feeling worked up? Some will exchange alcohol, drugs and other forms of escapism for a religious high. Or is the truth being proclaimed and people converted and discipled?

I'm even willing to defend a ministry to some extent on by its fruit. It seems the real problem comes when we are unwilling to biblical discern were some indiscretions may lie. We need to be willing to do this to ourselves (especially if we teach) as well as those who teach us.

Whatever the amount of good fruit produced it must be measured with Scripture or we really don't know how good it is. So no one misunderstands, I am aiming at myself here too.

Obviously numerical success alone does not indicate God's blessing.

I'll give a short breakdown of your list all of which are commonly heard arguments:

“God is clearly blessing this ministry. Just look at all the good they do.”—What is meant by “good?” If it is seeing large numbers of true conversions and the people are growing in grace, then it would no doubt appear to have God's blessing. But very often this is merely an attempt to defend large ministries, with the idea being they name the name of Christ and are drawing large crowds, thus God's blessing must be upon them.

“I’ve seen more people grow, etc. using their teachings.”—*As with the above this hinges on the definition of growth.

“God would not let such growth of said ministry if it weren’t solid.” See #1. We see from the NT that already there were heretics leading people astray.

#4 is similar to #2.

“Just look at the number of people they touch.” Touch in what way? Is an emotional feeling worked up? Some will exchange alcohol, drugs and other forms of escapism for a religious high. Or is the truth being proclaimed and people converted and discipled?